Start The Conversation Episode 4 Transcript

Jafar [00:00:01] I feel one of the main causes of people getting recruited is just lack of role models and lack of people to speak to. If everyone suppresses the problems until we bust out of the control, the main thing is you have nothing to lose.

Fatina [00:00:15] A lot of the times we're struggling with our resources and what we can provide those young people versus what the recruiters actually can get their hands on is very challenging.

Simon intro [00:00:27] The violent extremism landscape is fluid and complex and it can be difficult to navigate. This podcast series has been developed as a means of providing listeners with some thought provoking topics within this context personal insights and journeys, as well as helpful information that could assist someone who is vulnerable to being involved in violent extremism. The Engagement and Support Unit services focus on early intervention, awareness and resilience against violent extremism. They consult with and support the local community with this information to help mitigate the drivers of violent extremism and raise awareness of the complex factors and vulnerabilities that contribute to these ideologies. Before we begin, we would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands and airways on which we are meeting and broadcasting today. As we share our learning we also pay respects to elders past and present. It is their knowledge and experiences that hold the key to the success of our future generations and promote our connection to country and community. Please note that views expressed are not necessarily representative of the New South Wales Government. Episodes may contain depictions of violence or sensitive topics that some people may find distressing. For further information, please view our episode notes.

Rebecca [00:01:46] Hi, I'm Rebecca Shaw, Communications and Community Engagement Manager for the New South Wales Countering Violent Extremism, Engagement and Support Unit. This is Start the Conversation. Okay, so today we are chatting with Fatina Elabd, from Youth Off the Streets. Youth off the streets provide intervention and support at the local level with a mission to support and empower young people in need to build a positive future. Youth homelessness in Australia is a growing problem. Almost 25% of all homeless Australians are young people aged 12 to 24. Fatina has extensive frontline experience at the grassroots of working with vulnerable people, especially those who may be faced with influence from groups who encourage ideological violence, highlights her commitment to preventing radicalization and promoting harmony. The focus of her work is on building capacity among workers and community members to identify and respond to extreme ideologies within their local area. Fatina's goal is to contribute to a more resilient and cohesive society. Her experience and strength lies in managing and mobilizing a team of youth workers and resources to tackle complex social issues. Joining Fatina and myself today is Jafar Sartawy  from their Leadership Program. We'll chat further on the leadership program a little later. Jafar is an individual with a rich and diverse background marked by personal experiences with extreme ideologies, substance abuse within social circles, and now a deep commitment to community service and support. Jafar's involvement with Youth off the Streets since 2016, suggests a long standing dedication to helping young people navigate challenging circumstances. Jafar's collaboration with various government and non-governmental organizations, including Multicultural NSW, the United Nations and the Premier's Cabinet shows his proactive approach to addressing societal issues and advocating for marginalized groups, particularly young people By providing insights and perspectives in communications with young people Jafar has played a crucial role in fostering understanding, promoting dialog and facilitating positive change within communities. You sound like an absolute superstar, Jafar, did you like that intro? Thanks so much for joining us today Fatina and Jafar. Before we get into specifics, it might be good for our listeners to get a bit of background on your community based programs and how you go about engaging young people specifically. And also, I'm sure people are wondering about the leadership program specifically and how you came to be involved in that Jafar. So if you want to take the lead Fatina?

Fatina [00:04:26] Firstly, thank you for having us out. It's an honor. So Youth off the Street's Early Intervention and Prevention program focuses through a youth justice focused lens. We have two components to our youth justice program, so we've got the early intervention youth workers that work towards building capacity with young people, setting up outreaches and programs and activities which have recreational activities for young people to engage in, such as our Bankstown outreach site, which is a van and a trailer that park up at Paul Keating Park and set up activities, sporting recreational activities for young people to be able to engage in that safe space. We also have a drop in program where we open our doors for young people to actually come into our space where they're able to engage in that space as well. And we've got some other programs as well. We've got our caseworkers who provide the one on one individualized support, and then we've got our leadership program, which I'll pass over to Jafar in a moment to give you his insight about how he actually became involved in that. But the the Leadership Program stands for Future Australian Multicultural Leaders in Youth. This group was established in 2016 so that we could have direction from this particular group of young people on the needs and the gaps within the community for young people. And they have been responsible in setting up programs and giving back to that community, such as an AOD conference. They've raised money for Youth off the Streets to provide additional resources for young people. They've contributed in homelessness runs where they gave out bags to homeless people on the streets and they were involved in the response to the Christchurch tragedy, as well as many other activities that they've been responsible for. I'll pass it over to Jafar to give a bit of an intro as to how he came about being involved in that Leadership Program.

Jafar [00:06:15] Yeah, I grew up with five boys in a family. My mum has always been part of community. She's worked in communities, in community service industries for 15 odd years and she's always encouraged us to get as much knowledge as we can. She's had certificates in countless courses.

Rebecca [00:06:34] Smart lady.

Jafar [00:06:35] But she's she's also suffered in her own self. She's had a number of medical issues. She was diagnosed with lupus and she's also had some nerve damage, which has given her a minor disability. My brothers have not had  an easy life as well. My brother had a car accident when he was 18 he was sucking icey for two months, which I think thinking back affected me a lot more than I thought it did. Also, when I was a bit younger in 2010, I was diagnosed with depression after a string of bullying when I was in primary school, which I don't remember, which is weird.

Rebecca [00:07:10] Blacked it out perhaps?

Jafar [00:07:11] Yeah, probably. I found out years later. I also had scoliosis, which affected me physically in my younger years, but I also had family members that dealt with not so legal stuff and my brother that was on and off drugs most of his life. I had cousins. I had run ins with the law. Some spent time in prison. But I my mum always made sure that I was kept it clean, essentially. So she brought us to youth off the streets because she was doing some partnership with them and we were doing some surveys for them. That's when I was introduced to Amira and she told us about the family group where she started up a new group for multicultural youth in just into Bankstown. LGM was it? And so she wanted us to essentially be her eyes and ears to what the needs of the community is. So we then had a group of eight ish eight odd people, mostly of Middle Eastern descent, which she used to find what we need essentially.

Fatina [00:08:18] In terms of the leadership program and your involvement in that, because you did mention just before you were diagnosed with depression. How did being involved with the family group support you in that sense?

Jafar [00:08:34] Early on it was hard. I'm not going to lie. I got physically sick from being there because it was so outside of my comfort zone. But eventually they approved. From later on I found out that they knew all my problems from the get go. I don't know if they figured that out from their years of experience or my mum told them.

Fatina [00:08:52] When you say they knew, are you talking about the youth worker?

Jafar [00:08:56] Yes the youth workers that I was part of which is Fatina, Amira, Amon and Mohammed. Yeah. At the time, they all knew what was wrong with me. They knew how to deal with it better than I did. So obviously, I was young. I didn't know what what I even had at that time.

Rebecca [00:09:13] They recognized your needs.

Jafar [00:09:15] Exactly. They recognize what I had. They recognized what I needed, what they needed me. And Fatina especially, she realized that she just needed to push me. So forcing me to do MC events.

Rebecca [00:09:27] Terrifying for most people. And look at you now!

Jafar [00:09:30] This is also one of the things she forces me to to.

Rebecca [00:09:33] Out of your comfort zone today.

Fatina [00:09:35] So I guess, I guess that empowerment and, you know, building that capacity really pushed you out of that specific time of your life where you were diagnosed with the depression and it really got you to build that capacity in being able to actually take control back into your life and give back to the other young people that you were trying to do initially in the leadership group.

Jafar [00:09:54] Yep, yep. I was used essentially as a guinea pig. Not in a bad way, but it was a voluntary situation. But I always made sure that I was helping people. So I met with the board of directors of Youth off the Streets so they can get a better understanding of the youth that they're helping out. Which I also volunteered for, apparently.

Fatina [00:10:15] Yeah. Yeah, it was definitely voluntary.

Rebecca [00:10:17] Well, this sounds like you were a bit of a crossroads, Jafar. You know, like, you're in this really dark place, and perhaps you could have gone one way or the other. And it seems to me that you were caught at this sort of the perfect time. And you've channeled that energy into helping other people rather than you know, going down the wrong road.

Fatina [00:10:35] Most definitely. And I think for Jafar in particular, when we identified that Jafar was struggling in the meetings and there was a bit of the behaviors that we identified from Jafar, we were able to actually provide him support in the ways that he needed to those supports and what he needed. And I guess for for Jafar in particular, it was definitely an at risk situation during that time because the depression and anxiety would have made him feel isolated during that time. And what was happening was the family group was creating a sense of belonging for him every fortnight when he would attend the meetings and so forth. And he was very withdrawn during those times. So we would encourage him to actually empower him to be doing things and getting more involved and pushing his capacity. Because we knew at Youth off the Streets, what his experience could have been and what his skills are, and being able to identify what those strengths were individually for each young person. And Jafar ended up MC-ing one of the biggest events that we had at Youth off the Streets. It was a community dinner where we had, you know, Multicultural NSW and many other government agencies or stakeholders that were at that. And Jafar got up and actually spoke in front of everybody, which we knew. You know, at that point you could do it.

Rebecca [00:11:53] Yeah, it's amazing. Someone displaying such a number of vulnerabilities and identifying that in fact with the right supports, you can bring them from point A to where you are now. It's amazing.

Jafar [00:12:02] Also, another thing is I didn't know they were doing that, so like, I knew that idea. I think it was amazing because if I knew that they were in what they were doing, I would have shut off immediately. Yeah. So it was it was interesting how they knew and the best way to do it without triggering whichever, whatever would have stopped me from doing it.

Rebecca [00:12:23] They're good at what they do. Look, I mean, I guess speaking to that, like many CVE programs such as ours, early intervention and prevention is key. And as I'm sure it is for Youth off the Streets. So how does engaging young people in community based programs reduce their vulnerability? We've probably spoken a little bit to this now, but you want to just, I guess, add on to that.

Fatina [00:12:44] So creating safe spaces is one of the biggest elements that we focus on for young people. So we create those safe spaces by heading out to the community and having young people actually we go to where they are. So rather than us actually setting up in a space where it's foreign to young people we'll go out to where the young people are, we'll set up there and we'll create those opportunities. So some of those opportunities, a lot of young people who don't have the financial stability, their families don't have that financial stability to actually engage in like sporting activities outside of school. We'll provide those opportunities for those young people by creating football games and basketball games and all of those things that they can actually get involved in. We actually do street walks, which I didn't mention earlier, but one of the elements of our program is to go out into the community and walk around and speak with young people who are out and about and understand where they're at in their lives. One of those areas is, you know, timing for the street walks in particular is either during school hours or just after, just so that we can actually filter through the young people that are not at school and why they're not at school. And having those conversations actually break down the barrier if we're out into the community and asking them what's going on, what are you guys doing today? How's everything going? And taking that approach rather than waiting for a referral to come through, your email is actually getting out into their space and understanding them from their own perspective and in their own communities.

Rebecca [00:14:16] It's amazing. It's that, as you say, making people feel safe in their own environments is key. We did talk about the street walks at a recent conference and I was really interested in a sort of, you were recalling a recent sort of wasn't so recent. But you were working with a young person who was triggered by the tragedy in Christchurch. And you were talking of how they wanted to go to church in response, but as a remedy in response to tragedy. And you were sort of saying, no, let's get out, get on the streets and just talk to some like minded young people opposed to going to church as as a sort of as a remedy. And I just want to hear your take on the impact of street walks in that sense and that sort of wrap around support as an effective remedy.

Fatina [00:15:01] Yeah so during that time it was on a Friday that the tragedy occurred and in response we called a quick meeting with the team and worked out what response we were going to take. We decided to actually stay open all weekend that weekend, and we kept our office open during that time. We called in our leadership group, consulted with them on what the best response was. The leadership group actually brought to our attention that we need a safe space to go to that is not in the community where young people can actually voice their concerns, which we opened up our office. We had some artwork that was being created, so we had a big board that was actually being done and then we had some signs and all young people were able to contribute to this big board as well. While that was happening, we were out in the community doing the street walks in response. We were outside, we were walking around and we were speaking to young people that were actually at the park shopping center, train station, everywhere where we could cover. We actually got volunteers from different services through YOTS as a response to this as well. So we had a lot of hands on deck for this, which was excellent. Jaffa was one of the young people that actually came out and was actually able to have those conversations with staff. And one of one of the young people that we had spoken to that day in particular. Jafar if you wanted to quote what that young person said after we had finished that conversation.

Jafar [00:16:21] Yeah. So this is when we go out on the street walks, trying to reach out to people that that knew of the situation. And some most of them had similar experiences, but most of it, one of them said if we didn't speak to him about it, he wouldn't have been able to express what he felt about it, like he wouldn't have anybody else to talk to about it.

Fatina [00:16:40] So and I guess I guess like speaking about that, that was one of the biggest things that came out of our street walks and how, like, the impact of what our street walks had. We spoke to many young people during that time. We didn't limit it to just young people. We actually broadened that and we spoke to community as well about how they were feeling if they had support, what supports are in place for them. We quickly got some flyers together around what supports are available 24 hours a day that we could actually refer everybody to. One of the the young person that you actually mentioned. He was impacted by the Christchurch tragedy because this young person in particular was from a refugee background and he actually was very escalated. So when he came to the office and he was very heightened, we quickly were able to actually just talk him through, hear him out, actively listen and paraphrase what he was actually saying, because a lot of the times he was making a lot of threats to actually head to a church at that time. And we were able to quickly do a risk assessment based on that and actually speak him down. And actually, he ended up going back to baseline, which was excellent because we actually were able to deter him away from doing that. And I'll be honest, if we didn't have the response that we did, it could have ended up in tragedy for a lot of people and this young person in particular as well. So the fact that we were able to de-escalate him and, you know, shift his perspective in, okay, you want to do something, let's do something together, let's do something here with us helping us, because there are other young people that are feeling the exact same way that you are. And giving him that empowerment to actually give back to others that have been affected by it really helped him regulate his emotions and actually focus on a bit of a more positive response.

Rebecca [00:18:25] No it's amazing. I mean, it all goes back to building this like real rapport and trust with your clients and people on the streets. And if we take it back a few steps with the origins of street walks, why do you target the local areas that you do?

Fatina [00:18:40] So the the local government areas that we're actually in and we've identified as hotspot LGA's what that means is we've spoken so before we set up anywhere in the space, we actually do a lot of research around the area and the position that we're in. So we'll consult with councils, we'll consult with local police around what the crime rates are in that space. Where are young people congregating? Where are the most crime rates? I'll use Bankstown in particular for this. This example, Bankstown's PK Park was actually identified as one of the biggest areas where young people would go to actually fight after school. A lot of the community, the response that we were getting from the community was they don't feel safe attending the library there and walking towards that space. So we decided that based on all of the the response and the feedback we were given, we decided we'd do some street walks first to scope the area and have a conversation. We were having consultations with young people that were at the park asking them if we did do something here, would you attend? Would you like that? And a lot of the young people had really positive feedback, as in, Yeah, we would love that because there's nothing around and there's nothing to do.

Rebecca [00:19:50] It's amazing isn't it.

Fatina [00:19:50] So that's pretty much how we actually come to where we do what we do. And it's all about coming to the space that the young people are in and creating a safe space out of that space for them.

Rebecca [00:20:05] And when it comes to the actual recruitment that's happening in these hotspot areas. And when I talk about recruiters, you know, they're obviously ideologically motivated, you know, what are they offering these young people? You know, what are support services competing with. You know, why? Like, why are they going to go with a support service such as Youth off the Streets vs, you know, get sort of, you know, sucked down this rabbit hole?

Fatina [00:20:29] Yeah, it's a great question. Unfortunately, like, you know, it it is the reality of the situation we're currently faced with because there is that competition between services, not for profit agencies that are wanting to to support these young people. But we are competing with recruiters and what they have to offer. And a lot of the time it is that the belonging is one of the biggest the elements, but also there's the financial incentives that they're actually providing for young people and most importantly, like to at risk young people. The financial incentives, they look out like amazing for young people that are going through disadvantage. So some of the things that they've offered in the past that I've heard of around gift cards, they've offered PlayStations, they've offered, you know, a place to even stay for homeless young people that going through temporary accommodation and have to go to housing every day. And instead of doing that, here's a draw card here's a place to stay. This is some stability and then creating that sense of belonging for them with having those ideologies and then giving them a sense of identity, but also empowerment and feeling powerful, being part of this group and, and having that sense of belonging around those ideologies is creating that that sense of safety for them. But also that's the reality of the competition at the moment is a lot of the times we're struggling with our resources and what we can provide those young people vs what the recruiters actually can get their hands on is, yeah, very challenging.

Rebecca [00:21:59] It is always a challenge. And Jafar, you've got some experience with, I guess, your peers being approached by recruiters on the streets. Can you share any of your.

Jafar [00:22:11] I don't know about the exact interactions, but I know these kind of boys, they're easily willing to go ahead with it. I know two of them or probably three of them now from our family but I don't know about one of them. Can't remember what happened with him? Yeah, but two of the boys had very skewed views of the government, which is somewhat understandable. But yeah, so one of the one, the refugee that she was talking about, he didn't like the government in any way, but he, we, we helped him understand that what YOTS does is still part of the government. So there were some good parts of it and if we help him he can help others and he can pass it forward.

Rebecca [00:22:54] So they build the trust and.

Jafar [00:22:56] Yeah. And one of the other ones, he still has those ideologies, but he was able to shift them to a business mind point of view. Okay. So now he has multiple businesses that donate money for he has a water bottle company now that every bottle sold is the bottle donated. So he has he's.

Rebecca [00:23:15] Channeled it for good.

Jafar [00:23:16] He's channeled it for good. That's all for. Yeah. He was able to venture into those avenues to better himself into better others.

Rebecca [00:23:22] Amazing. And so what do you think makes these youth or people at risk of being recruited to your understanding? And how can we better understand the root causes of being radicalized or vulnerable to being radicalized?

Jafar [00:23:37] I feel one of the main causes of people getting recruited is just lack of morals and lack of people to speak to. There's no in most Arab cultures nowadays is mental illnesses and taboo topics aren't spoken about. So like that, a lot of young people don't have a place to go to, to speak to things If they don't have siblings that they're close with, yeah, they're most likely don't have anyone to speak to about them.

Rebecca [00:24:03] Everything's bottled up or pushed under the rug?

Jafar [00:24:04] Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Everyone suppresses their problems until it burst out of the control. So what YOTS does is essentially give them that support system. Even if they do that, even if they think they don't need it.

Fatina [00:24:17] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And just adding onto that, I think isolation plays a big role. But also, you know, young people might be feeling disconnected from the mainstream society and they're more susceptible to the sense of belonging and community, but also the identity crisis. And just one example of that is, you know, refugee young people that have come from overseas that are trying to adjust to the Western society, but then have the language barrier with their parents and having that that identity crisis and not sure of where they're trying to be. And then, you know, at the age of puberty and so forth, anger and resentment for like certain narratives, you know, or the government's political views and the government stance and things like that, which is where, you know, a lot of the young people don't have the the safe space, as Jafar was just mentioning, to actually talk about what they're feeling and what frustrations and, you know, inner guided conversation. And I think, you know, another big element, as I mentioned before, is the financial incentives, you know, being at risk of the recruitment if you're struggling to provide for your family and you've got that burden as a young person already there's a lot of pressure within our society and we know the cost of living is rising. So a lot of families are struggling in that sense. And a young person might feel like this is just, you know, some way to get some quick money to actually help my family and do better for them. But then there's also the potential of peer pressure as well. You know, it could be passed on through family members, which we've seen in the past. So if the older people in the in the family, parents, brothers, siblings, whoever it is, have those ideologies, then they're easily passed on to the to the younger generation within that family as well.

Rebecca [00:26:05] Breaking the cycle really isn't?

Fatina [00:26:08] 100% So I think, you know, there is a lot of factors that play into this. And if a young person is going through domestic and family violence, it makes them at risk. Homelessness, all of those things that are that just build up the at risk, you know, young person and the vulnerabilities of that young person.

Rebecca [00:26:23] I think it just goes back into the importance of the one on one support that you guys offer. Do you guys want to talk about that role in a little bit more detail? Yeah, because it's really what sets you guys apart in a lot of ways.

Fatina [00:26:35] Yeah, sure. So as I mentioned before, we have, you know, different elements of our program. We've got the street walks, all of those activities that I mentioned, but we've also got the one on one support and what it kind of links together. So when we go out onto the street walks and we're meeting these young people there, and if we are identifying the needs that they have, we're actually building the trust first on the floor in their own space. And then once they're actually happy to engage with us because we've broken down those barriers we're then able to work with them on a more in-depth level. And they're actually happier to talk a little bit about their underlying root causes and what's going on for them personally at home. And I think for many young people, this particular initiative has been really successful because young people are more open to talk about what's going on for them. So for us to be able to identify those things and create a needs analysis on those, the young people, we're actually able to challenge those extremist narratives for those young people in a more safe environment because they actually feel safe enough to actually have those conversations and a healthy conversation about these things. And young people don't tend to hold back on some of their thoughts and thinking and the research that they might have done online. And we're able to actually guide them in a sense of, you know, that emotional support that young people really seek and that mentorship for that young person. But also we're promoting reintegration into the community and having that positive aspect. As Jafar mentioned, some of the young people from our leadership group, so our leadership group is not you don't have to meet a certain criteria. It's open to any young person that wants to be involved in that leadership group. And as Jafar mentioned, you know, there were a couple of young people that were involved into that group that had those perspectives. And, you know, we were able to work with them one on one as well as in that leadership group to shift their perceptions. And the leadership group actually gave them a sense of empowerment ownership into the space and that sense of belonging where they were actually able to give back to the community in a more positive way rather than engaging in the extreme ideologies or being radicalized.

Rebecca [00:28:40] That's amazing. I guess while we're on this real positive train of thought, yes, I know, Jafar, you are a success story in yourself, but do you want to share with us some other success stories from Youth off the Streets just for our listeners?

Fatina [00:28:53] Yeah, definitely. We worked with a young person for many years. This young person, when we first met him, he was 14 years old and this young person didn't have any stability in his life. He was homeless, alcohol and other drugs and a lot of legal challenges that this young person was facing. This young person would only attend his appointments if he was in crisis. So there was no stability with, you know, the type of support we were providing this young person. If something would happen, he would turn up at the office and he would have that immediate response. And then we wouldn't see him again until another crisis was to occur. We would see him around the community and we would have the chats with him in the community when we did see him. But the consistency wasn't there from his end. So over time, I think it was maybe two years of having that on the spot crisis support for that young person, that young person felt really safe with us. But then he mentioned that he got a job with somebody who we knew was a potential recruiter. And we raised a lot of concerns and we were very, very, very concerned about, you know, his involvement because he's definitely at risk of, you know involving in the radicalized, you know, extreme ideology. So we kept a close eye on, you know, his involvement in that. We constantly called him to make sure that he was okay. And, you know, he was telling us about all these amazing things that he's been offered and, you know, food and support and a place to sleep. And, you know, he's has friends and people that are accepting him. And, you know, he's playing cards with the boys and those kind of things. So it was definitely raising concerns for us at Youth off the Streets. We did our the processes of how we were needed to report this. Over time, the young person was coming to us with I've been asked to go somewhere. I'm not really familiar with where I'm going, you know. And he was actually able to, you know, identify red flags. Yeah. So he was he was identifying those red flags. And then at one point I turned up at the office. It was about 8:30 a.m. and he was outside the office already. And, you know, I greeted him and asked him, you know, to come inside. And he said to me his behavior was so scared. And he said to me, they're asking me to do stuff that I don't want to do. And and he was the one that was actually able to identify those things and didn't didn't go ahead with it. But the reason for that is, even though his support with us has been inconsistent, the door was always open for him to receive that support. And he knew that this was a safe space and, you know, he could go there for that support. So the minute he felt in crisis again, he's learned that this is the place where I go to get that help.

Rebecca [00:31:38] Consistency.

Fatina [00:31:38] Yeah, for sure. So we were able to, you know, support him in that and, you know, make the reports, the necessary reports that we needed to and then support him in disconnecting that, because not only was he trying to disconnect, they were constantly, you know, reaching out to him quite a bit. So luckily enough for this young person in particular, he was able to identify that and he was able to come to that conclusion himself. For us at Youth off the Streets, we had an open door policy. So that's what supported him in that sense. And we had the only stability that he had in his life was us.

Rebecca [00:32:11] So hard, isn't it? It's also equipping young people who are vulnerable with the skills and tools to understand danger. I mean, it's a it's a hard thing, isn't it?

Fatina [00:32:22] Yeah for sure.

Rebecca [00:32:24] Jafar I guess just to finish off, I would love to know from you if you have any advice for perhaps some youth on the streets themselves who might be on the fence when it comes to engaging with support such as Youth off the Streets, what advice or tips or would you give them to get them over the line?

Jafar [00:32:43] The main thing is you have nothing to lose. It's like she said they have an open door policy. If you have something on, you can speak to someone about it. They're all trained for the situations that you don't have any experience in. So putting your foot through the door is your best option. If you feel like the person that you end up getting isn't what you think is right, they have many people that can help you with whatever situation you have. They have many different avenues of services that help you in any situation. I don't even know all of them, but there's a lot just some people like help themselves by helping others. So that's what personally, that's what I am, like I feel like I can help myself with my own problems by helping others with their problems.

Rebecca [00:33:33] Definitely. It's just building that self-esteem isn't that and resilience.

Fatina [00:33:37] And I think like, we're pretty fun, right? Yeah, sure. We're pretty fun people. You know, our jokes are really good.

Jafar [00:33:46] Yeah, but you take on my jokes a lot.

Rebecca [00:33:51] You're not going to offer PlayStations then Fatina?

Fatina [00:33:51] No.

Jafar [00:33:52] You get a PlayStation.

Jafar [00:33:56] Here's some support.

Fatina [00:33:58] Yeah.

Jafar [00:34:00] It's still good but it's not a PlayStation.

Fatina [00:34:01] I guess. Like, as Jafar mentioned, you know, you got nothing to lose. And I guess, you know, it's it's a scary thing. It's scary to reach out for support or, you know, even reach out to something that's really unknown or unfamiliar. And I guess for for the advice like Jafar's advice is, you know, you got nothing to lose. But also you have everything to gain.

Rebecca [00:34:24] I think when you're rock bottom, you can only go up, right?

Fatina [00:34:27] Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Rebecca [00:34:31] Guys honestly, I'm so amazed by the work that you're doing. It's been so nice to meet you, Jafar specifically. Thank you so much for giving us your time to learn about your amazing programs. Yeah, I think we'll end it there and we'll certainly leave some information at the end of the episode where people can find more information and how to get in touch with Fatina. So thank you so much, guys today. It's been wonderful.

Fatina [00:34:52] Thank you.

Simon intro [00:34:54] You have been listening to Stop the Conversation, a podcast series produced by the New South Wales Countering Violent Extremism, Engagement and Support Unit. For more information please see the episode notes or visit www.steptogether.nsw.gov.au